I admit to not reading the article...yet. I find Graebers views challenging but worth the effort. So my comment here may be rather simplistic...it's certainly not in the realm of anthropological study. I was taught 1) to live within my means and 2) if you incur a debt you have a moral obligation to pay that debt. Like I said...simple.
but not simple if someone else imposes the debt on you. like trafficked women who are told that they have to work as prostitute to 'repay' the costs of their travel to a new country, their housing, and their food. They are given no choice as to the scope of these debts, no control over them. and they probably get charged extortionate interest rates too.
Of course...the situation you describe is morally reprehensible...and illegal. One party in that contract is acting illegally. So I amend my remark...or rather condotionalize it. A debt incurred where both parties are acting legally and neither are under duress.
Unfortunately, Jan, that is not the way capitalist societies operate. Some people, through no fault of their own, find their means aren’t enough for them to live by. People can be forced into debt through economic circumstances, through the obscene pressures of the consumerist societies we inhabit, through unemployment, through the strain of zero hour contracts and the cost of living crisis. I suggest you watch ‘Sorry We Missed You’ by Ken Loach which is a harrowing example of modern labour exploitation. It is not simple as you suggest.
Thanks for your reply. I was merely suggesting it was simple for me. As I think I said, I live way below my means which I suspect many people don’t. Yes, you are correct…it is a much more complicated issue than just pay your debts. I don’t doubt for a minute that there is income/wealth disparity in the US and truly legitimate poverty. But along side that, I also believe that many people succumb to the notion that they “can have it all.” They are still seduced by the “keep up with the Jones” idea and attempt to find happiness and spiritual satisfaction through buying stuff. Not to mention that there is a great deal of societal pressure to participate in our consumer culture…I think these things contribute to people going into personal debt.
Regardless of whether one agrees with his views, we must admit that our current system is wildly flawed and out of balance with a more humanistic and balanced way of living.
It’s the world we live in. Laws are unfair. The ruling class rigged the laws to indenture people. Property has more rights than individuals. Both political parties in America are corrupted, they desire power more than anything else and lie to keep it.
I admit to not reading the article...yet. I find Graebers views challenging but worth the effort. So my comment here may be rather simplistic...it's certainly not in the realm of anthropological study. I was taught 1) to live within my means and 2) if you incur a debt you have a moral obligation to pay that debt. Like I said...simple.
but not simple if someone else imposes the debt on you. like trafficked women who are told that they have to work as prostitute to 'repay' the costs of their travel to a new country, their housing, and their food. They are given no choice as to the scope of these debts, no control over them. and they probably get charged extortionate interest rates too.
Of course...the situation you describe is morally reprehensible...and illegal. One party in that contract is acting illegally. So I amend my remark...or rather condotionalize it. A debt incurred where both parties are acting legally and neither are under duress.
Unfortunately, Jan, that is not the way capitalist societies operate. Some people, through no fault of their own, find their means aren’t enough for them to live by. People can be forced into debt through economic circumstances, through the obscene pressures of the consumerist societies we inhabit, through unemployment, through the strain of zero hour contracts and the cost of living crisis. I suggest you watch ‘Sorry We Missed You’ by Ken Loach which is a harrowing example of modern labour exploitation. It is not simple as you suggest.
Thanks for your reply. I was merely suggesting it was simple for me. As I think I said, I live way below my means which I suspect many people don’t. Yes, you are correct…it is a much more complicated issue than just pay your debts. I don’t doubt for a minute that there is income/wealth disparity in the US and truly legitimate poverty. But along side that, I also believe that many people succumb to the notion that they “can have it all.” They are still seduced by the “keep up with the Jones” idea and attempt to find happiness and spiritual satisfaction through buying stuff. Not to mention that there is a great deal of societal pressure to participate in our consumer culture…I think these things contribute to people going into personal debt.
Debt is unpaid wages, nothing more. The stagnation of wages during the last forty years amounts to trillions of dollars.
Regardless of whether one agrees with his views, we must admit that our current system is wildly flawed and out of balance with a more humanistic and balanced way of living.
The message comes through very clearly to not trust the author with your property and that they think that is a virtue.
Criminals think this way. Any connection?
It’s the world we live in. Laws are unfair. The ruling class rigged the laws to indenture people. Property has more rights than individuals. Both political parties in America are corrupted, they desire power more than anything else and lie to keep it.