I admit to not reading the article...yet. I find Graebers views challenging but worth the effort. So my comment here may be rather simplistic...it's certainly not in the realm of anthropological study. I was taught 1) to live within my means and 2) if you incur a debt you have a moral obligation to pay that debt. Like I said...simple.
but not simple if someone else imposes the debt on you. like trafficked women who are told that they have to work as prostitute to 'repay' the costs of their travel to a new country, their housing, and their food. They are given no choice as to the scope of these debts, no control over them. and they probably get charged extortionate interest rates too.
Of course...the situation you describe is morally reprehensible...and illegal. One party in that contract is acting illegally. So I amend my remark...or rather condotionalize it. A debt incurred where both parties are acting legally and neither are under duress.
Unfortunately, Jan, that is not the way capitalist societies operate. Some people, through no fault of their own, find their means aren’t enough for them to live by. People can be forced into debt through economic circumstances, through the obscene pressures of the consumerist societies we inhabit, through unemployment, through the strain of zero hour contracts and the cost of living crisis. I suggest you watch ‘Sorry We Missed You’ by Ken Loach which is a harrowing example of modern labour exploitation. It is not simple as you suggest.
Thanks for your reply. I was merely suggesting it was simple for me. As I think I said, I live way below my means which I suspect many people don’t. Yes, you are correct…it is a much more complicated issue than just pay your debts. I don’t doubt for a minute that there is income/wealth disparity in the US and truly legitimate poverty. But along side that, I also believe that many people succumb to the notion that they “can have it all.” They are still seduced by the “keep up with the Jones” idea and attempt to find happiness and spiritual satisfaction through buying stuff. Not to mention that there is a great deal of societal pressure to participate in our consumer culture…I think these things contribute to people going into personal debt.
You didn't read the article and came here to say it's "simple for me [to pay my bills]" and jump right to "suspect consumerism" when the fact is that many people are being screwed into debt by being browbeaten and terrified into taking out student loans and being crushed under a dollar that is declining precipitously in value thanks to central banks typing in imaginary kajillions all day?
Wow. That is some wildly clueless self-absorption.
It’s the world we live in. Laws are unfair. The ruling class rigged the laws to indenture people. Property has more rights than individuals. Both political parties in America are corrupted, they desire power more than anything else and lie to keep it.
Right ..so why are you using their symbols in your profile pic? Why would you serve them so long as to claim retirement from a military branch?
You don't get to bend over for the enemy and then say "Oh all that stuff is bad, pat me on the back for saying so" once you've gotten everything you wanted to get from the taxpayers, dependo.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars is a benevolent organization that helps military members obtain the benefits the government owes them. They help veterans with trauma. The symbol is taken from the Maltese cross which represents the beatitudes found in the sermon on the mount.
The VFW is not a political party. Political leaders have given corrupt but lawful orders which we followed. We need to dump political parties so that service members no longer have political leaders issuing corrupt but lawful orders.
Regardless of whether one agrees with his views, we must admit that our current system is wildly flawed and out of balance with a more humanistic and balanced way of living.
I admit to not reading the article...yet. I find Graebers views challenging but worth the effort. So my comment here may be rather simplistic...it's certainly not in the realm of anthropological study. I was taught 1) to live within my means and 2) if you incur a debt you have a moral obligation to pay that debt. Like I said...simple.
but not simple if someone else imposes the debt on you. like trafficked women who are told that they have to work as prostitute to 'repay' the costs of their travel to a new country, their housing, and their food. They are given no choice as to the scope of these debts, no control over them. and they probably get charged extortionate interest rates too.
Of course...the situation you describe is morally reprehensible...and illegal. One party in that contract is acting illegally. So I amend my remark...or rather condotionalize it. A debt incurred where both parties are acting legally and neither are under duress.
Unfortunately, Jan, that is not the way capitalist societies operate. Some people, through no fault of their own, find their means aren’t enough for them to live by. People can be forced into debt through economic circumstances, through the obscene pressures of the consumerist societies we inhabit, through unemployment, through the strain of zero hour contracts and the cost of living crisis. I suggest you watch ‘Sorry We Missed You’ by Ken Loach which is a harrowing example of modern labour exploitation. It is not simple as you suggest.
Thanks for your reply. I was merely suggesting it was simple for me. As I think I said, I live way below my means which I suspect many people don’t. Yes, you are correct…it is a much more complicated issue than just pay your debts. I don’t doubt for a minute that there is income/wealth disparity in the US and truly legitimate poverty. But along side that, I also believe that many people succumb to the notion that they “can have it all.” They are still seduced by the “keep up with the Jones” idea and attempt to find happiness and spiritual satisfaction through buying stuff. Not to mention that there is a great deal of societal pressure to participate in our consumer culture…I think these things contribute to people going into personal debt.
You didn't read the article and came here to say it's "simple for me [to pay my bills]" and jump right to "suspect consumerism" when the fact is that many people are being screwed into debt by being browbeaten and terrified into taking out student loans and being crushed under a dollar that is declining precipitously in value thanks to central banks typing in imaginary kajillions all day?
Wow. That is some wildly clueless self-absorption.
It’s the world we live in. Laws are unfair. The ruling class rigged the laws to indenture people. Property has more rights than individuals. Both political parties in America are corrupted, they desire power more than anything else and lie to keep it.
Right ..so why are you using their symbols in your profile pic? Why would you serve them so long as to claim retirement from a military branch?
You don't get to bend over for the enemy and then say "Oh all that stuff is bad, pat me on the back for saying so" once you've gotten everything you wanted to get from the taxpayers, dependo.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars is a benevolent organization that helps military members obtain the benefits the government owes them. They help veterans with trauma. The symbol is taken from the Maltese cross which represents the beatitudes found in the sermon on the mount.
The VFW is not a political party. Political leaders have given corrupt but lawful orders which we followed. We need to dump political parties so that service members no longer have political leaders issuing corrupt but lawful orders.
Debt is unpaid wages, nothing more. The stagnation of wages during the last forty years amounts to trillions of dollars.
Regardless of whether one agrees with his views, we must admit that our current system is wildly flawed and out of balance with a more humanistic and balanced way of living.
The message comes through very clearly to not trust the author with your property and that they think that is a virtue.
Criminals think this way. Any connection?